July 14, 2008

Im buying a puppy, how do i know if its fraud?

So, online I found a yorkie puppy for sale for X amout of dollars which is cheaper than your average $2000 one.
Well, the ad said that the lady lives in Miami Fl. But turns out she is in the Victoria Region. (by Austrialia)
And well, at first I believed it was fraud. BUT she is talking about sending me the puppy before I have to pay.
This is what she sent:
I did say, since we are sending the puppy from outsidethe US, we will do secured payment and you receive the dog before we get the money.

So do you think its fraud? She hasnt replyed on the way TO pay. But if she does, well, I would like to know what is honestly a safe way to pay for the pup?
I know any money orders or Western union is fake.
So what works?
And well she did say I get the dog first. She says the puppy will come with a 1 year health guarantee, microchip ed, vet checked, registration papers, current on vaccines, and a puppy kit.
Is that good?
Is this fraud?
Ok wait Im sorry. She hasnt replyed because I just sent the email about how to pay to her. She shouldnt reply until tomorrow. Or later today. But Im just asking like- how WOULD you pay for a dog? Do you pay the airline? She sends me pictures of the puppy. And she does do what ever I ask. Ill ask her to put a Dr Pepper can next to it and she will take a picture. I asked her to write my name on a sheet of paper and she did with the puppy. Same puppy too. ???
The problem with where I live is that it is a VERy small town. And it is VERY pricey. Im in Naples FL.
This is where Daniel Radcliff and Steven Speilburg owns other houses. Not to mention all the other famou people. I moved here because I was dragged here. And well, the yorkies here are all abover $1000 and I dont want to showcase one. I just want a yorkie. I tried ALL the adoption centers in my area but they only have big dogs. And Miami is kinda far.
I do not plan on breeding the yorkie.
Ok. Please stop suggesting an adoption center.

I have looked all over my area and cant find ANY!
yes i have used petfinder.
I would like a puppy! not an adult with health problems!
I adopted my 2 other dogs and rabbit from shelters!
My rabbit and golden retriever have health issues. I do not with to have another dog with problems.

please do not suggest them anymore! thanks!

Hi…..I personally wouldn't go through with this transaction. When someone is out of the country, once you send them the money, if it IS fraud, there isn't a thing in the world you can do, to get your money back. That's why people running scams, always do it out of the country.

Plus, even if it is not a scam, if you were to have problems with the puppy, good luck enforcing that "one year health guarantee". People have enough problems getting bad breeders and pet stores in the US to back up their "health guarantees" when the dog gets sick!

I know Naples is a pricey area (I am from FL, used to work out of Ft Myers). But the $2000 dollar Yorkies are mostly from pet shops and individual breeders who are in it for the money, and are well aware of all the idiots with too-much-money in the area. Yorkies and other toy dogs are the "trend" right now and of course you have unscrupulous people taking advantage of it.

I would suggest contacting the Yorkie Club of Central Florida, and getting a Breeder Referral. There may be a breeder in your area, or even if they are further north, it's not too bad a drive. Here's the website: http://www.ytca.org/ccentflorida.htm

If there aren't any available or planned puppies in Florida, go to the main Yorkie club site, www.ytca.org and get a nationwide breeder referral. Even if you have to buy from California, it's still closer than Australia!!

The benefit to finding a Club member breeder, is that the members are held to a strict code of ethics regarding their breeding practices. They aren't in it for the money- they are in it to produce sound, healthy animals that meet the breed standard.

I have no idea what the going price is for a Yorkie from an ethical breeder….BUT….when I purchased my Basenji from a responsible show breeder, they had Basenjis for sale in my local pet store for $1900 dollars, with "pedigrees" full of known puppymill names.

My puppy, on the other hand, didn't have a single dog in his 5-generation pedigree that was NOT a champion, his sire was the #1 Basenji in the US in 2000, all health clearances done on sire & dam, full health guarantee, lifetime right of first refusal contract (meaning the breeder will take him back at any time if I can't keep him for any reason)…..I had her full help and support 24 hrs a day and I still talk to her 7 yrs later. And guess how much he was? $550, plus $100 dollars to have him shipped to me from Indiana.

That's just an indication of the difference between someone who's in it for money, and someone who's in it for love of the breed. Try to find a breeder who's a member of the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America, you may be quite suprised at the difference in price.

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Comments on Im buying a puppy, how do i know if its fraud? »

February 9, 2008

EMO @ 11:27 pm

FRAUD!!!!!!!! Why the hell would you try to make business in Australia for a dog. . .go local or in your animal shelter!!
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dirt @ 11:27 pm

dont do it,
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a gal and her dog @ 11:27 pm

I still wouldn't do it. I'd try to find a dog in rescue who needs a second chance. At least I could meet the animal before adopting it.
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Diane C @ 11:27 pm

What does the puppy say about it? Animals are much more trustworthy than humans so go with what he/she says
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deltadawn @ 11:29 pm

Typical and common SCAM!
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babsie b @ 11:29 pm

Anything you buy on a credit card is supposed to have a secure purchase warranty …. if you have issues you reverse the charges.
If she doesn't accept credit cards, then…hrm. I don't know if there is a good way you can tell if its fraud.
I'd be a little suspicious of the fact that the location was wrong right off the bat.
We see beautiful little Yorkies in our area in local papers for a LOT less than 2,000.
If you feel uncomfortable with a transaction with her, then don't do it. Keep doing some research and you will find the right pup for you.
Cheers.
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Nekkid Dog © @ 11:31 pm

I think this is fraud.. she is being mum on how to send the money. There are ALOT of scams out there that claim to send a puppy for a cheap price.. they ussually require a bank transfer, in that case then, they have your bank account info.. or they send a fraudulant check, want you to cash it, and mail it back to them (plus the amount you are to be paying).. the check is a fraud tho, and when the bank finds that its not cleared, it goes against your account.

Edited to add:

Photoshop is not hard to do either.

I would NOT trust this! You can find a puppy in the US, there is NO reason to risk falling for a scam in order to try to get a puppy.

There are a few other ways they operate this scam to obtain money. Who would send a puppy before receiving money? There is no puppy.. the lady wants you to send the money and have it on its way.. you will go to pick up a pup and find there is none.. too late, your money will already be gone.

I wouldnt go for it, the fact that she claims to be in FL in her ad, but turns out to be from outside the US has SCAM written all over it.

Unless you can go and actually pick up the puppy yourself, dont bother with this.
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here's a yorkie for adoption in Naples, Fl
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=10193716

Schatzi @ 11:31 pm

Why in the world would you pay that much for a pup you've never seen? And from a person who has already lied about their location?
Sounds like fraud, or at the very least a bad idea.

Edit: Okay, with your new added details, it sounds like you have already made up your mind. Why are you asking people here if we think it's a fraud, then? If you want to pay for a pup you've never seen, from a breeder that apparently can't sell their pups within their own continent (good breeders have waiting lists), then go for it. Use Paypal, a cashiers check, whatever.
Sheesh.
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brito302 @ 11:32 pm

same thing happen to me…its a scam…dont do it. MAke sure you get your puppy were you can pay in person and make sure that the dog is healthy. There are just trying to see who they can fool and dont let it be you
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dondon @ 11:33 pm

Fraud.
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lilguysmum @ 11:34 pm

It's a scam, or a really, really stupid breeder. Besides, why in the world would you want a dog all the way from Australia. Look at the American Kennel Club website for Yorkie breeders around the US.
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dogsbestfriend27 @ 11:35 pm

I have a feeling about you getting a puppy from overseas. Something is not right here. I am sure you can find a wonderful breeder here in the US and be able to meet with the breeder face to face and see what you are getting. Honestly I wouldn't do it. I wish I had gone to my breeders before she send me mine. I would have seen that he was very food aggression, and I would have gotten hiim. It would have saved me thousands for a trainer to get him over that. Always meet with your breeder, so you can see the whole picture.
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? DP @ 11:36 pm

It would seem to me, that if she lied about her location then she is bound to lie about other things. Surely you can find a good dog closer to home, from someone who isn't a known liar?
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Penny @ 11:38 pm

Ask yourself this:
Why would she say she was in Florida if she really is in Australia?
Do you really want a puppy to travel that far?? That's too far, you are asking them to get sick, besides the trauma.
A secured payment can be like an account that the money will be held in - it doesn't have to be a cashier's check.
Why if they are airfreighting the animal would they sell it for less, not more?

I would wonder about the quality of anyone that would subject a dog to that travel. And remember the old adages of ~ you get what you pay for ~ it's too good to be true ~
Use extreme caution.
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sft @ 11:43 pm

firstly, this is almost certainly fraud.
but more importantly, why would you want to buy a dog you had never met, or seen its parents? why would you want to have a dog sent on a long haul flight?
there are SO many dogs in your area that are waiting for homes, some even pure bred puppies if that is what you want. check out http://www.petfinder.com and enter your area - you will see loads of yorkies that desperately need a home. You can actually go and visit these dogs, and see if you get along with them.
$2000 is FAR too much for a dog that will just be a pet - and I am assuming and hoping you have no intention of breeding your dog, since you don't seem to know much about this.
EDIT:
Just because you live in an expensive town, that is no reason the prices of puppies would be justified. Search petfinder - you will see there are even yorkies IN NAPLES — but also, many rescues will adopt out of state This little guy is even a pedigree pup looking for a home: http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=10159817
EDIT 2:
If you really want a puppy, check out this website http://lycos.fortmyers.oodle.com/sale/pet/-/pet_breed_yorkshire_terrier/
it has puppies near you. but just because it might be registered or a puppy, that is no indication that your dog will not have health problems. make sure to thoroughly check the breeder out, see the parents, ask for references and speak to other people who have bought their dogs. it is a lot of money to spend on something you havent checked out properly.
rescuing an animal from a shelter does not necessarily mean it will have health problems. in fact it may be more obvious in an adult dog whether they are going to experience problems.
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Krystal-Elise S @ 11:49 pm

Please make sure you pick a breed that suits your lifestyle, please don't pick one just because its cute, fliuffy, favourite breed or you just like a particular colour. Never buy from a backyard breeder or petstore. Never buy a puppy under 8weeks of age.

Yorkie
The Yorkshire Terrier can be territorial and likes to have their space respected. They are tolerant of older children if treated with care. The Yorkshire Terrier can also be somewhat independent and assertive. They get along well with other pets.

Never buy a puppy from online-
Lady Says Miami Florida- actually where she lives is in Victorian Australia.

She is a fraud, no doubt about that! See the above. I would cancel the order because she a fraud, it is not good.
Never buy a puppy or dog without veiwing it in person.

A REGISTERED Breeder would never fly there dogs. Shelter dogs are much cheaper. there are also breed rescues-which are shelter dogs that specify in a particular breed.

Here is a link to shelter dogs online in Florida
http://search.petfinder.com/search/search.cgi?animal=Dog&breed=Yorkshire+Terrier+Yorkie&preview=1&exact=1

Please consider an adult dog from a shelter and save a life. Adult shelter dogs are not bad dogs
& you can get purebred dogs too at shelters.

True Reasons Shelter dogs are surrended
owners no longer had time
owner was moving to smaller premises
owners worked long hours so no longer had the time
owner was moving
owners were no longer in a position to keep her
owners no longer had time for him
owners were going on a holiday.
surrendered to us as a result of a marriage breakup
owner sadly passed away
owners couldn’t give him the time he needed.
owner was too ill to care for them
owners were moving overseas
owner could no longer care for him
owner was having a baby so no longer wanted
elderly owner was too ill to care for her
found dumped in a cardboard box and left to die.
surrendered because her owners had moved out of their home & left her behind

here are some rescue dogs that have found new homes with children&both had been abused.

Story 1
http://www.parentdish.com/2007/11/01/doberman-saves-toddler-from-snake/

Story 2 Bear
http://www.aaps.org.au/successstories/success_fortytwo.html
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Guzadog @ 11:49 pm

I strongly suggest that you don't buy from what sounds like a "puppy mill" situation. Rescue a dog from an animal shelter or go to a reputable breeder who you can visit.
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jenjoe9 @ 11:58 pm

i think you should call the AKC and they will have breeders in your area that you can trust thats what i did when i wanted to get a bichion frise.wherever your living call kennel club .or you could try going to a shelter and adopting a dog that needs a home.
hope this helps : ) : ) : ) : )
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February 10, 2008

ChihuahuaMom @ 12:04 am

Do you know how long the flight from Australia is??? That is way too long for the dog….let alone most people! If she was a reputable person she would be more concerned for the dog and wouldn't expose it to such conditions.

And I understand your predicament, as I live in NYC and the dogs go for $2000 to $3000+ in the petshops around here. I too looked at shelters and their websites to adopt a chihuahua for over a year. And age was not an issue with me, I was more than willing to take an older dog. However, I never had any luck. I then found out that the Rescue Groups usually get the chihuahua's and other small dogs as soon as they get in…and I won't even get into my experience with them! Lets just say it was EXTREMELY NEGATIVE and most of the women who volunteered came off a little "LOONEY" to me. (yes I know that will offend some people but this was my experience)

I recommend asking friends if they know of any breeders, and in a worse case senerio then look on the internet. But see if you can find a breeder you can drive too and observe the puppy in person. That is what I finally did :-)
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Forest Basenji @ 12:20 am

Hi…..I personally wouldn't go through with this transaction. When someone is out of the country, once you send them the money, if it IS fraud, there isn't a thing in the world you can do, to get your money back. That's why people running scams, always do it out of the country.

Plus, even if it is not a scam, if you were to have problems with the puppy, good luck enforcing that "one year health guarantee". People have enough problems getting bad breeders and pet stores in the US to back up their "health guarantees" when the dog gets sick!

I know Naples is a pricey area (I am from FL, used to work out of Ft Myers). But the $2000 dollar Yorkies are mostly from pet shops and individual breeders who are in it for the money, and are well aware of all the idiots with too-much-money in the area. Yorkies and other toy dogs are the "trend" right now and of course you have unscrupulous people taking advantage of it.

I would suggest contacting the Yorkie Club of Central Florida, and getting a Breeder Referral. There may be a breeder in your area, or even if they are further north, it's not too bad a drive. Here's the website: http://www.ytca.org/ccentflorida.htm

If there aren't any available or planned puppies in Florida, go to the main Yorkie club site, http://www.ytca.org and get a nationwide breeder referral. Even if you have to buy from California, it's still closer than Australia!!

The benefit to finding a Club member breeder, is that the members are held to a strict code of ethics regarding their breeding practices. They aren't in it for the money- they are in it to produce sound, healthy animals that meet the breed standard.

I have no idea what the going price is for a Yorkie from an ethical breeder….BUT….when I purchased my Basenji from a responsible show breeder, they had Basenjis for sale in my local pet store for $1900 dollars, with "pedigrees" full of known puppymill names.

My puppy, on the other hand, didn't have a single dog in his 5-generation pedigree that was NOT a champion, his sire was the #1 Basenji in the US in 2000, all health clearances done on sire & dam, full health guarantee, lifetime right of first refusal contract (meaning the breeder will take him back at any time if I can't keep him for any reason)…..I had her full help and support 24 hrs a day and I still talk to her 7 yrs later. And guess how much he was? $550, plus $100 dollars to have him shipped to me from Indiana.

That's just an indication of the difference between someone who's in it for money, and someone who's in it for love of the breed. Try to find a breeder who's a member of the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America, you may be quite suprised at the difference in price.
References :

durdenslabs @ 12:23 am

Personally I'd stear clear from this "breeder". They lied about where they were located and now they are supposedly going to ship you a pup BEFORE you pay for it. Nope, not gonna happen. Something is up.

Here's what I suggest you do. Go online. Go to akc.org and look in the breeder section for Yorkie breeders throughout the U.S.A. You will find plenty of good quality Yorkie breeders, even show breeders, that will sell you a Yorkie for less than $1000…especially if they are being sold as "pet quality" pups by show breeders. A 1 yr guarantee isn't good as it takes up to 2 yrs for health issues to develop. 1 yr is a cop out on their part.

Below you will find the results for 6 surrounding states, plus Florida, for AKC Yorkshire Terrier breeders with pups available. There are 3 in FL just on the first page - the first one is VERY good…however it's up to you. This is just a starting point.
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http://www.akc.org/classified/search/index.cfm

Janet C @ 5:38 am

I bought my cat online from a reputable australian cattery over 4 years ago with no issues, but that was when online fraud was less prevalent and the flight was only 4 hours with no need for quarantine.

some points to ponder:
how far does the puppy need to travel to reach you? I had to pay about AUD500 for the airticket for my cat to travel from Perth to Singapore. It will cost a lot more for the ticket from Australia to USA, is this included in the price? If it is, then you will practically be getting the puppy for free, which should raise alarm bells. If it is not included, then you should expect to pay a small fortune for the airticket, which makes it more costly for you to fly the dog into USA then to buy locally.

will the puppy require quarantine when it reaches you? for how long? note that the puppy will be subjected to a lot of stress and might not survive the journey/quarantine. it would appear that the breeder does not care very much for the welfare of the dog, which should worry you.

you shld also check whether the breeder is registered with the relevant authority in australia.
try contacting the victorian canine association.
http://www.vca.org.au/

frankly, i will not go ahead with this transaction, all other considerations aside, just because it is too much hardship for the dog.
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